This is a repeat - I know - I have an ETHICAL Delima Can you help?

by **udell** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:51 pm

I MADE A FREAKIN SPELLING MISTAKE AND YOU HAD TO COMMENT ON IT?

IF THEY DON"T BELONG TO YOU TEN HOPE OFF IT

by **dempsey** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:44 pm

I'd say do what you want with them. You can take her to court for none payment. its civil suit. Also if you sell her pics..... she could take you to court as well. so research it. and be careful.

by **deerward99** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:00 pm

First situation: if the "adult site" is illegal by the laws of Conneticut, you did not have an enforceable contract. As you might have already found out.

Second situation: There are two problems, and you might need a lawyer to resolve them
Problem one: who owns the copyright to the pictures? Usually it would be the photographer, but he or she can assign (meaning sell) rights to someone else?

This is the legal dilemma. Ethics are up to you.

Problem two: Is there any "personality rights" involved? That is a tough one, and unclear in the courts yet.

by **taurino** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:53 pm

i think that you should make all the money u can
she should have paid you for the work you did for her in the beginning, she cant treat the lil ppl like **** once she becomes sumthin big. thats not right.
teach her a lesson and get rich off her.

by **beaumont** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:34 pm

Obviously, your lesson is, never undertake work for hire without a contract or other backing documentation.

But here's the ticklish part. You had an interesting comment about who owns the pictures. But in this case, you have a counter argument to your ex-model. Since you have no paperwork, neither does she. By default, and with no money and no documentation, it becomes very hard to define those photographs as having been "work for hire." Because there is no evidence of hiring. If there had been evidence of hiring, you would have won a case in small claims court to recover the web-building fees.

Since there isn't, it becomes a question as to whether any part of the copyright law of 1975 applies here. Normally, in work for hire cases, the person doing the hiring owns the pictures. But since there is no proof of hiring, that throws the pictures into doubt. And you might legally pursue the claim that they were a gift.

So here's the outside shot. Send her a letter stating that you have pictures that predate any copyrights or trademarks she might have entered for her image. Tell her that if she settles out of court for the small amount of money in question for services rendered, you'll destroy the electronic copies and return the disk to her. Otherwise, since those pictures appear to have been her gift to you, possibly as a "dation en paement", you will sell them publicly to recover the lost fees. But if you have a lawyer friend, buy him lunch and ask him for a quick, off-the-cuff opinion. This whole thing hinges on the fact that you and she have no proof of intent. So it will be a matter of interpretation of facts. The question is whether she would want to face that kind of exposure. {Obviously, as a model, she's used to other kinds of exposure, smirk, smirk, wink, wink}

by **cid** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:57 pm

yes it would morally right if you proved to be the bigger person and just gave her the pictures back to her.
but technically she owes you money, the money could come from the pictures .. and you could tell her exactly that.
if the pictures are legally yours .. then you can technically do whatever you want with them ... if not ... you could get in trouble, especially cause she's got the big boys to protect her now (playboy).
in completely up to you, i suggest you just be the bigger person .. give them back and move on. one time i cause cheated out of 400 dollars, im a dj .. it was one of my first jobs... you can only call the person so much and be mad about it so long before you move on.

by **plys** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:27 pm

They are your photo's and she had intended them to be published anyways. You should have sued her for not paying you for the work you did on the site to begin with. If there is or never was a written signed contract for anything then she owes you nothing and you took the pictures with her consent so they are yours to do with what ever you please.
I would do some serious research to get the most money for the photo's that you can.

by **aodhgan** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:02 pm

Don't do it or your ethical issues will become a legal problem. First of all, you seem to be not of possesion of any documents that supports your claim. She could practically file a case stating that you illegally posted those pictures as you do not have a WRITTEN consent.. which would be the more concrete.

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